Wednesday, November 5, 2008

SRF News

I know this isn't the "Strategic Rocket Forces Blog" but I like nuclear missiles too.



Gist: In connection with American plans to place elements of its anti-missile defense system in Europe, Russia has decided to keep a division of the Strategic Rocket Forces on duty in Kozel'sk, Kaluga Oblast'. Part of the division is equipped with the the RS-18 intercontinental ballistic missile (SS-19 Stiletto) with a range of 10,000km. Earlier it was planned to remove three regiments from service and then deactivate the division by 2010. Dismantlement of a regiment began in September under the direction of the Ministry of Defense.



Gist: As Dmitriy Medvedyev announced, Navy will provide radio-electronic jamming of the new American anti-missile sites from Kaliningrad in support of Russian national security. Also the Iskander (SS-26) missile will be stationed in Kaliningrad. It is a new generation system superior to all previously contructed missiles of its type. It is a deterrance weapon designed for precision strikes against high value land targets. Beside the system itself, there will be a communications center and a command center as well. The Iskander incorporates stealth technology, making it virtually invisible to radars. It is also guided and manueverable along all points of its trajectory. It can destroy even mobile targets in all weather conditions with a CEP of 2 meters (sic). There isn't any other mobile tactical missile system like it in the world.

13 comments:

asdfsdf said...

"The Iskander incorporates stealth technology, making it virtually invisible to radars."

Hah! I doubt the Russians are sufficiently advanced in stealth technology to design missiles that are both
A) High performance and lightweight
B) Sufficiently stealthy to be untrackable by the huge X-Bands we will have.
C) Again for A, RAM is very heavy, even for the latest generation of American materials, and expensive to. The Russians claim they have an effective, lightweight, and cheap material?

Also, I wonder how much Russia could jam a radar that size, especially against ECCM and this new SUTER thing.

They would be better off emphasizing the fact that they have more missiles than we have interceptors.

Anonymous said...

The huge Xband radar is not orientated to detect Iskander launches from Kaliningrad, that would totally defeat its purpose of detecting ICBM launches from Iran (the totally opposite direction).

Secondly, its far easier to make a "stealth" missile than say a stealth plane. For example, in a fighter-plane by far the two main contributors towards its RCS are the engine inlets/fans and the radar. A missile has neither, and has much smaller control surfaces. Also, RAM is light enough to coat fighter planes, so its probably light enough for a missile right? The new Su-35BM has RAM all over it.

One last thing, dont mistake Russia not having deployed a stealth optimised airframe for their inability to do so. I would say it has a lot to do with their doctrine: they prefer a large number of cheaper fighters than a MUCH smaller number of really expensive stealth fighters.

Russia has viewed stealth airframes as flawed in the respect that a stealth airframe desgin takes 10 years to develop give or take, and then must serve for another 30 years. In that 30 years time the airframe design is basically frozen solid, while radars are constantly evolving. So the logic is that maybe you can build an undetectable airframe, but within say 5 years of its introduction radar technology will catch up and be able to detect it, and then you have 25 years of airframe design life left in which it is detectable.
Right or wrong, this is part of (not the entire though) reason of why Russia/Soviet Union shied away from a full blown stealth airframe.

asdfsdf said...

"The huge Xband radar" has a wide field of view and a rapid scan rate.

"For example, in a fighter-plane by far the two main contributors towards its RCS are the engine inlets/fans and the radar."

In a non-stealthy fighter plane the largest contributor of RCS is the engine, however the inlet can be designed to alleviate this problem. Though I agree, it would be much easier to make a stealthy missile.

"Also, RAM is light enough to coat fighter planes, so its probably light enough for a missile right?"
Wrong. Planes only have to generate enough thrust to generate lift; Ballistic missiles need to be able to reach a suborbit. And really effective RAM is not lightweight, or easy to develop. If light, simple, effective RAM weren't so much of an investment, why isn't everyone running around in stealth jets? Considering that the range of the X-band is considerable and that the Iskander has a max range about half that of the radar(I think) then remember distance of detection=(RCS)^2. So if you reduce the RCS of your missile by 4 then the detectable range drops by half.

I found no source claiming there was significant use of RAM on the Su-35, only that it had been redesigned to slightly reduce its frontal RCS. This does not make it stealty, most planes do this, including the F/A-18E, Eurofighter, and Rafale.

I dont doubt that Russia could creat a stelath plane if it really wanted to; surely you could create an F-117 using common knowledge. I do doubt that Russia's knowledge of stealth technologies is anywhere near the US's; we do have a head start. The reason the F-22 and F-35 are so expensive really has very little to do with stealth but much more to do with...certain problems in American procurement and the Military-Industrial complex that has very recently cropped up and was at its peak during the F-22's and F-35's developments.

"Russia has viewed stealth airframes as flawed in the respect that a stealth airframe desgin takes 10 years to develop give or take, and then must serve for another 30 years."
Any airframe design that is completely new takes 10 years from conception to production, and most stay on for 30 years. The B-52 is what, 50 years old now? The F-117 was recently retired to be replaced by the F-35 and F-22. And I have seen no evidence claiming that stealth airframes cannot be modified into another design. And how long exactly did it take you guys to develop a reliable counter to the F-117 that works every time? Oh, yeah, your new wideband radar JUST CAME OUT. So apparently we have kept stealth aircraft ahead of the radar curve, not behind it. Besides, modern missiles can maneuver at many more Gs than modern fighters; At long ranges stealth is decisive.

Anonymous said...

The Xband radar can scan in an 180 degree FOV at best, but unless they build it on a rotating mount, its sure cant see behind it. They might build it on a rotating mount, but usually these types of radars are built on the side of a large building.

The Su-35 IS treated with RAM, google is your friend. RAM however does not give you "stealth", it gives you a reduced signature. All modern fighters such as the EF, Rafale, etc, have RAM coatings.

My last point I think you misunderstood. My point was that over the lifetime of a stealth airframe it is static, while radars are constantly improving. And in terms of detecting an F-117, I would say that from the first iteration of S-300 would be able to detect the F-117 pretty easily. So while the F-117 was "undetectable" for say the first 5 years of its operational life, once the S-300 was developed I would say it was no longer "undetectable".

asdfsdf said...

"The Xband radar can scan in an 180 degree FOV at best, but unless they build it on a rotating mount, its sure cant see behind it."

http://bpujos.free.fr/PagesPhotos/Photos/Autres/world_map.GIF

It sure doesn't have to see behind it to see both Russia and Iran, so it should be able to scan for missiles unless you put them in Finland :P

"My point was that over the lifetime of a stealth airframe it is static, while radars are constantly improving."

Why is this exactly? The B2 recently had its RAM replaced by a newer material, and I don't see why it would be any more difficult to modify a stealthy aircraft than a normal one. The F/A-18 E/F was modified from the F/A-18 A-D to make it stealthier, and wasn't the Su-35 modified from a whole list of planes based on the Su-27?

"They might build it on a rotating mount, but usually these types of radars are built on the side of a large building."

Well if it is the Green Pine Radar we are using it is on a rotating mount, but not the type you would want to scan with. It spins mainly to aim at something else, not to scan. And 180 deg FOV? That means it can see directly perpendicular to the radar, and I thought 120 deg was the practical max for AESA.

asdfsdf said...

*Edit*

http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/karte405.en.html

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