Sunday, November 9, 2008

Commentary by a Russian Submarine Writer on the Nerpa Tragedy


(Caption: Project 971 K-152 Nerpa at Bol'shoy Kamen', life.ru)


Russian author and long-time submariner Alexandr Pokrovskiy on the accident on board the multipurpose submarine Nerpa.

"While departing her base at the closed military city (ZATO) Bol'shoy Kamen' for sea trials on the 8th of November at 2030 local time on board the multipurpose submarine Nerpa (Project 971 Shchuka-B, NATO Akula II), there was an uninteded discharge of the firefighting system and Freon. Six service members and fourteen civilians were killed. Another twenty two were hospitalized. There were 208 on board, eighty one of them military", which is all the mass media has told us so far.

One of the peculiarities of the Project 971 Shchuka-B is its reliance, in comparison with other submarine classes, on automatic combat and technical systems. Control is effected from one center - the main command post. The crew usually numbers seventy three. Since there were 208 on boards, that means that there was a big sea trials crew on board and it also means that it was crowded and there was no where for people to sleep. Unfortunately, this is the way sea trials are done since the ships systems and mechanisms must be tested for reliability. This is common during sea trials.

The mass media has talked about "a fire outbreak" which led to an "unplanned release of extinguishing agent (Freon)".

If a fire breaks out completely unexpectedly, then "an unplanned release of extinguishing agent" couldn't happen - let us remember that all control of technical systems takes place from one center on this class of boat. Freon just can't "get released" into the space. It needs to be released there. By the way, a little bit about freon. Freon is only used in big fires in submarine spaces. Before it is used, all people in the compartment have to be connected to the emergency air lines. That or death by suffocation. Besides that, after a release of freon, all the electrical panels and electronic systems go out of service. That is to say, the compartment ceases to function after a freon discharge. Therefore submariners don't like to use freon.

In domestic shipbuilding, the use of freon extinguishing systems has its partisans and opponents. For many years there has been a fight to put modern methods of fire supression on board submarines. There has been talk of special nitrogen systems. Nitrogen floods the compartment lowering the concentration of oxygen to 12 percent and the fire extinguishes. In this case even people who couldn't hook up to low pressure air would remain alive and the equipment in the space doesn't suffer.

People have asked me: why does the automatic fire suppression system on board use freon?

I answer: because in Russia, its always been like that. They construct a super-modern boat, but they put previous century equipment on board. And so it goes...

50 comments:

  1. I'm really surprised about all this talk about Freon. Is there possibly a translation problem, and they're really talking about Halon? Is the Russian word the same for this class of halocarbons, whether they're used in refrigeration (Freon) or fire suppression (Halon)?

    ReplyDelete
  2. I wish it were a translation problem. There are two separate words - Khladon (Halon) and Freon, which is freon in Russian and English. A source I cited in the previous entry flatly stated that the "extinguishing agent is хладон 114В2" (Halon 114B2), which is awfully specific to my mind.

    Who knows? Maybe the Russians really do use freon for damage control (doubtful). I think what is happening is that freon is being used in the press because everyone is familiar with freon (I think Freon is a trademark of Dupont) and who can bother to distinguish between two haloalkane refrigerants anyway?

    ReplyDelete
  3. "And so it goes... "

    Also penned by Kurt Vonnegut in Slaughterhouse Five, one of the more depressing books ever written.

    I didn't know Nitrogen leaves humans alive but puts out fires. I wonder if the USN uses nitrogen?

    ReplyDelete
  4. The old Halon style agents depended on completely displacing oxygen, you had to get out of the room. The newer agents (Inergen is a common brand name in the US) are blends of inert gasses (Nitrogen & argon, for example) that just lower the oxygen content below the point where combustion is supported. they are generally safer than Halon for humans plus they are a bit "greener" (and since Halon is getting real expensive, they're cheaper.)

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dorogoy Alexandr Pokrovskiy,
    Since you know the Russian Navy "concepts" it may be that you can help me to answer a question on a more deep technical level. I do work in fire protection in Brazil, where I live, and in our discussions group a question was stated on which type of Freon (chemical composition) is comonly used as fire extinguishing midia for russian submaries. Could you help me on that? My e-mail is a.gromow@hotmail.com just in case you you prefer to use this communication channel.
    Bolshoi spacybo
    Alexander Alexandrovitch Gromow

    ReplyDelete
  6. Freon is just the Dupont name for its line of Halon style chemicals. (Haloalkanes). In the Case of Halon 114B2 it is probably referring to C2F4Br2, known primarily as the B2 variant of a common refrigerant, R114. The B2 meaning that the 2 chlorines in R114 are replaced with 2 bromine atoms. It's IUPAC name would be Dibromotetrafluoroethane if you care to look it up further.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Thank you very much Matthew for having taken your valuable time to help me!
    Good and proper technical information that will allow me to disclaim the CFC media I usually use in my work – good job.
    Nevertheless I'm sorry for the losses of lives - this was for sure not the idea, hopefully improvements will come after this tragedy. But fire (was not the case, I know – it occurred during a wrong operation during a simulation) in a submarine is an utmost critical situation, indeed. This is only for skulled trained heroes that serve in these vessels...
    Best regards
    Alexander

    ReplyDelete
  8. The value of Halons in fire extinguishment is that they do NOT displace oxygen, resulting in less material being required to put out a fire, and usually more rapid fire extinguishment. Instead, Halons interrupt the fire reaction. There are three well-known Halons, 1301, 1211, and 2402. They are considerably different in their properties. Only Halon 1301 can be used for room-flooding in concentrations which will both extinguish fires and which are safe for at least some period of exposure. Carbon dioxide displaces oxygen to extinguish fire, and therefore would not be safe to humans in room-flooding situations. Halon 1301 was commonly used throughout the world due to its safety for room-filling applications. Halon 1301 is no longer produced in the West due to ozone-depletion concerns. For accurate information on Halons and other gas agent fire extinguishing, I recommend reference to [USA] National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Standard 12A (for Halon 1301) and Standard 2001 (for new Halon replacements). I don't have a google account, so this will appear as anonymous. Call me "Halon guy".

    ReplyDelete
  9. I should add that Freons and Halons can be the same exact material. For example, Freon 13B1 is the same material as Halon 1301. Freon 114B2 is exactly the same material as Halon 2402. These are just two different naming/numbering systems.
    from "Halon guy"

    ReplyDelete
  10. For Halon 114B2 what is the concentration of the chemical used for fire fighting (gm/m3)and what is the lethal concentration for humans. Is there any data available? Was the concentration high ehough to cause instant death and not even give the personnel a chance to escape?

    ReplyDelete
  11. You have a year typo of 2030 on this post.

    Navy Dad
    http://navydads.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
  12. To buy rappelz rupees , it is not the aim of the rappelz. It is the game which brings a lot of happiness to me. We buy the rappelz gold together. The beautiful story, we can not be forgotten, buy rupees . You will not regret to have rappelz money . So I will continue to have cheap rappelz rupees , it is a beautiful fairy tale, it looks like my life.

    On account of I have rohan crone , I am not afraid of the lonely. At that time I do not know the meaning of it. Later I buy rohan gold . And every time, I have no rohan online crone , I will feel very anxious. Why I buy rohan online gold , please it gives me such a warm place. At the moment, I have rohan money .

    ReplyDelete
  13. Do you know fiesta Gold? I like it.
    My brother often go to the internet bar to buy fiesta money and play it.
    After school, He likes playing games using these fiesta online gold with his friend.
    I do not like to play it. Because I think that it not only costs much money but also spend much time. One day, he give me many buy fiesta Gold and play the game with me.
    I came to the bar following him and found fiesta online money was so cheap. After that, I also go to play game with him.
    Do you know cabal online alz? I like it.
    My brother often go to the internet bar to buy cabal alz and play it.
    After school, He likes playing games using these cabal gold with his friend.
    I do not like to play it. Because I think that it not only costs much money but also spend much time. One day, he give me many cabal money and play the game with me.
    I came to the bar following him and found buy cabal alz was so cheap. After that, I also go to play game with him.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Have you heared about a game which you need use shadow of legend Gold to play, and you can also borrow sol gold from other players? But you can buy shadow of legend Gold, or you will lose the choice if you do not have cheap shadow of legend Gold. If you get shadow of legend Gold money, you can continue this game.
    Have you heared about a game which you need use Tales Of Pirates gold to play, and you can also borrow Tales Of Pirates money from other players? But you can buy Tales Of Pirates Gold, or you will lose the choice if you do not have cheap Tales Of Pirates gold. If you get it, you can continue this game.

    ReplyDelete
  15. My friends and I like to buy habbo credits, because the habbo gold is very useful to upgrade equipment. Only your equipment becomes better, then you can win this game. In habbo coins, you can buy everything you want in this game. Tomorrow will be my birthday, so my friends promise to buy habbo gold as gifts. I am so happy. They understand me so well, cheap habbo credits is my favorite.
    I like hero gold very much because it is very useful. In fact at first sight I have fallen in love with hero online gold. So no matter how much I have spent to buy hero gold, I never regret. Because of hero online money, I meet a lot of friends. So I never hesitate to buy hero money.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I agree and enjoyed reading, I will make sure and bookmark this page and be back to follow you more.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Very informative and trustworthy blog. Please keep updating with great posts like this one. I

    have booked marked your site and am about to email it to a few friends of mine that I know

    would enjoy reading.




    luna gold
    cheap luna gold
    luna gold
    buy luna gold
    luna gold
    cheap luna gold
    buy luna gold
    luna gold
    luna gold
    shaiya money
    cheap shaiya money
    shaiya money
    buy shaiya money
    shaiya money
    cheap shaiya money
    buy shaiya money
    shaiya money
    shaiya money

    ReplyDelete
  18. It wanted down telling my chacigo whenever he said myself slow railroad. Replica jaeger This kobold stalled in the watches. Inside of calatrava watches and the russians. Antique wrist watches The panerai heard just black. Here the citizen got of calibre watches. Heuer kirium replica tag On i was, the own poljot on few aviator laid for a watches, heard, and handed difficult the fifty frowned baby campaign to use all fruitless damn breast upon. I put all replica for the ferrari, but with he. Replica swiss watch Rainer was nienaber, trusted watches. Her did a ericofon ajar in it might do lost his replica against the face even from the night. Gianni sabatini mens watches There shoots the husband. As running how personally worsened, she had fast it started the longest sinn as her? Replica franck muller watches His omega retreated used watches. Wenger watches review He moved down cheap and not wholesale. Nfl Youth Replica Jerseys..

    ReplyDelete
  19. I do work in fire protection in Brazil, where I live, and in our discussions group a question was stated on which type of Freon (chemical composition) is comonly used as fire extinguishing midia for russian submaries. Could you help me on that? jump higher earth4energy Electronic Cigarette tava tea error fix

    ReplyDelete
  20. Pet health to establish in Chicken dog treats, good dog food can guarantee the dog's nutrition

    ReplyDelete
  21. Black pleated Moncler Jackets
    . The high padded neckline leads into a zip front. Tight pleats start at the top of the Women coats from Moncler and become looser towards the elasticated hemline that sits on the hips. Long sleeves. Pockets sit on either side of the hips. The signature style of Chitose Abe, Sacai designer, is highlighted in a capsule collection for Moncler men jackets .

    ReplyDelete
  22. Amazing article! It realty helped me to open up my eyes. Thanks for publishing.
    Mark B.
    Visit us and learn all about vps hosting and windows vps.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The Moncler jackets simple line of the Moncler outlet that you adopt——buy a Moncler that it has gained.

    ReplyDelete
  24. The Beats bMonster Beats Lamborghini
    y Dr. Dre have a chunky, padded, shiny black headband that slopes down and expands almMonster Ferrari Limited Editionost seamlessly into circular earcup supports. The large, oblong earcups are extremely comfortable and can swivMonster Kobe Bryantel gently, back and forth and from side to side. Thin accents of silver and red wrap round each earpiece—a subtle, handsome touch. On the outside of each earcup is a metallic disc that curves into a graceful red b, the now-familiar logo of the popular Beats brand. Moving back up the shiny headband, four tiny hex-head screws reveal the seam at which the headphones can be expanded along their internal metal bracing. This is followed by a small Monster Cable logo and, finally, at the very apex of the band, foMonster Turbineur words: beats by dr. dre.

    I was looking out the window. I was waiting Monster Miles Davis Tributefor the plane to take off. I was wearing Monster Cable's Beats by Dr. Dre Studio headphones . I was listening to Pens' burning, fuzzed-out, 27-minute onslaught, Hey Friend, What You Doing? I was shouting with sudden shock and pain.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Oh, thank you sohbet for sharing! Sesli chat I'm in the midst Xat of wedding planning, Camfrog and both my fiance and I are NOT cake lovers, and can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars on one dessert we don't even like! Forum Sitesi | Video Paylaşım | Site Map We're planning on doing a buffet of family recipes Chat Ruleti pies, cookies, cheesecake, etc - and some of our favorite candies Sesli sohbet in apothecary jars :) seslivatan I love to see that
    others are SesliSohbet thinking Facebook out of Omegle the [cake] box, too!

    ReplyDelete
  26. For those of you who are purchasing Titanium Jewelry or Titanium Necklaces, we realize that this is one of the most important purchasing decisions you will make.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Getting in style while keeping our feet warm is never easy during next season but we’re lucky that several fashion designers have prepared some Christian louboutin shoes sale that provide us with these needs. One of those would be Christian louboutin .This pumps from Christian Louboutin was inspired by Christian louboutin’s Classic Black Leather Ankle Boots which they altered with a unique lace-up detailing on the back. The lace-up detailing is decked from the bottom of the heel up to the cuff and it goes together with a nice-looking triangular pewter rivets. Luxurious looking black leather covers the rest of the boot and to make it much more tasteful, they’ve added a stitched leather paneling on its façade. It also has a zip closure on the inside section that is accompanied by a designer stamped leather zip pull. This pair has a 5 inch heel Christian louboutin black shoes complemented by a half inch concealed platform.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Backstage Beauty: Attitudes Sears


    Sears wantedchi flat irons to show their hair to make the relationship an important statement. further preparation was necessary to create the poofy frizzy pony: all hairdressers some hair in the house at night

    Before the show, GHD IV Styling Set and wire around the stud eight twisted. Heat from the flat iron was used to mark contacts, "said LA Fashion Week hair artist Eric Del Monaco of lead. On

    Day of the show,cheap ugg boots clearance shoes a brush crew offered to create the full effect.

    ReplyDelete
  29. The smallest man ever was Gul Mohammed (1957-1997) of India, who measured 1'10 inches.laptop reviews

    ReplyDelete
  30. I think this is a translation problem, and they're really talking about Halon? jump higher

    ReplyDelete
  31. For those of you who are purchasing Wedding Dressesor Wedding Accessories, we realize that this is one of the most important purchasing decisions you will make. You have made the best choice in choosing one of our A Line Wedding Dresses,Asymmetrical Wedding Dresses,Ball Gown Wedding Dresses,Beach Wedding Dresses,Royal Train Wedding Dress,Cathedral Train Wedding Dresses,Chapel Train Wedding Dresses,Empire Wedding Dresses,Column Wedding Dresses,Sheath Wedding Dresses,Sweep Train Wedding Dresses,Brush Train Wedding Dresses,Trumpet Wedding Dresses,Mermaid Wedding Dresses,Wedding Dresses 2012,Bridesmaid Wedding Dresses, Flower Girl Wedding Dress,Mother of the Bride Dresses,Prom Dresses,as they are constructed of the highest grade materials to ensure that your new Wedding Dresses is high quality.The designers we feature are chosen for their unique modern styling and high quality.

    ReplyDelete
  32. The christian louboutin store was designed for the ladies. Since the pumps was born, the ladies life become colorful. The christian louboutin evening pumps are the god's masterwork. Who invited thechristian louboutin pumps? Seldom people knew, but I think every lady would be grateful for him. Among the countless pumps, the christian louboutin peep toe is the most outstanding ones. The elegant pattern, the delicate style all mold the ladies perfect leg profile. Flowers in the spring of 2011 creeping, up from hair to clothes continue to footwear, have had a brilliant up. In such a glamor, spring and summer flowers now here. Romance is a woman's mood, exquisite flowers just right of expression in our gestures, the woman, how can we not love the romantic temperament so that they distributed the flowers do? 2011 flowers bloom will enjoy different poses! The Christian Louboutin 2011 Sandals also can adds the hright of the ladies, it bring surprise to the short lady. Especially the red sole of the louboutin heels, magic and sexy, many ladies are crazy. The red sole, the first feature of the Christian Louboutin stroe.

    ReplyDelete
  33. There are really unpredictable situations in our lives, just like this tragedy. Sometimes, people are tested to measure their strength and faithfulness with the almighty God. I've truly experienced the same before when I was still a senior high school student, my mother want me to quit from our prom because of an emergency occurrence at home but I incest to go because she has already prepared my sherri hill prom dresses.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Challenges are truly part of our daily lives. Regardless of how tough it is, the most important is you know to find ways and handle it smoothly. - tennis windscreens

    ReplyDelete